Newton Tracker comments and response

Newton Tracker comments and response

Postby Velocomp » Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:05 pm

We received a comment on Newton Tracker; here it is:

"Like the iBike itself, the major complaint here is that there is no way to manually pause the timer when you pull over to change headbands, respond to nature's call, etc. At least the Newton autopauses, while tracker keeps the elapsed time running, meaning that when the two files are merged and uploaded to Training Peaks, you get an average speed based on elapsed time, not moving time. For now, I'll stick with merging my garmin files to Isaac. The other complaint, which is common to all iphone gps apps for biking, is that for rides much over an hour, this is not very practical for battery life, especially if you want to use the iphone for anything other than tracker while riding."

I think it's important to respond to this publicly:

1) NT is a SUPPORTING app that works IN COMBINATION with the Newton. NT does NOT intend to be an app for tracking ride stats, etc; NT's purpose is to provide GPS data (in the background) to the Newton. The Newton does all the heavy-lifting of ride stat tracking.

2) There is no reason to have a pause timer in NT, because NT's only job is to track GPS information. Isaac figures out where all the pauses are!

There's no reason to have a pause button in the Newton, because the Newton pauses automatically!

Isaac software does all of the hard work of merging things together.

3) The merged file is based on NEWTON data, not NT data. So, average speeds, ride time, etc. for TrainingPeaks is 100% accurate, and NT has zero effect on ride stats.

4) There's no difference in ride stats if you use a Garmin or the Newton+NT.

5) We routinely get 5 hours of ride time with our iPhone 5, with everything turned on. Similar results with our Android version. If you're only getting one hour of battery life from your smartphone, then something is wrong with your smartphone.
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Re: Newton Tracker comments and response

Postby Russ » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:22 pm

John said :

4) There's no difference in ride stats if you use a Garmin or the Newton+NT.

My question (I have a Garmin etrix) is what extra function/feature/information do I get without the app but with the Garmin, if I purchase the key? Sell me on this and I will spend the money : -)

Thanks,
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Re: Newton Tracker comments and response

Postby Velocomp » Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:50 pm

Russ wrote:John said :

4) There's no difference in ride stats if you use a Garmin or the Newton+NT.

My question (I have a Garmin etrix) is what extra function/feature/information do I get without the app but with the Garmin, if I purchase the key? Sell me on this and I will spend the money : -)

Thanks,
Russ


Here's what comes to mind:

1) One less gadget to mess with.

2) You don't have to carry your Etrix on your bike.

3) I cannot think of any information the Etrix supplies that the NT does not, with the possible exception of turn-by-turn (I don't know if the Etrix does this)

4) I'd much rather have a smartphone with me on a bike ride, than a Garmin.
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Re: Newton Tracker comments and response

Postby racerfern » Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:03 pm

Russ,

I think the biggest advantage of Newton Tracker is ease of use. Isaac seamlessly grabs the data from the server and blends it with your Newton data. Done.

In today's world where most people have smartphones and most cyclists take their phone in case of emergency it makes things easier with one less gadget. I've even used other apps such as Glympse at the same time so my wife can see about when I'll be home.
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Re: Newton Tracker comments and response

Postby Russ » Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:19 pm

Thanks John and racefern,

I think I have the picture now :-) Anyhow I am one who reads the announcements and then my imagination tries to insert functions that could be but were not stated.

As far as smart phones go, just resisting another data plan cost. If I go for the smart phone and it's plan, I may not be able to go for something like a Newton II (or whatever it may be :-). I do carry a relatively dumb cell phone.

However, over time, rates may come down, smart phone features may become a stronger lure (or the apps :- )

Keep up the good work!
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Re: Newton Tracker comments and response

Postby Velocomp » Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:16 pm

Russ wrote:Thanks John and racefern,

I think I have the picture now :-) Anyhow I am one who reads the announcements and then my imagination tries to insert functions that could be but were not stated.

As far as smart phones go, just resisting another data plan cost. If I go for the smart phone and it's plan, I may not be able to go for something like a Newton II (or whatever it may be :-). I do carry a relatively dumb cell phone.

However, over time, rates may come down, smart phone features may become a stronger lure (or the apps :- )

Keep up the good work!
Russ


HA! You don't need a cell phone plan for your smartphone to use NT. Buy a used iPhone or Android, install NT, and let 'er rip. Does it work? You bet; our developer bought an Android phone, but has no data plan for it...
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Re: Newton Tracker comments and response

Postby Russ » Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:39 pm

My son has a Galaxy S 4, someday he will upgrade :-)
Thanks for the idea, will give it more thought!
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Re: Newton Tracker comments and response

Postby Rolando » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:22 am

If you're curious about battery life:

I used NT until my phone died, just 200m before the end.
My iPhone4 recorded a total of 10:30 hours of data, 9hrs were riding data.
The phone was at 95% capacity and as suggested here I turned email push to off and fetching to manual. Cell and text were still active.

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Re: Newton Tracker comments and response

Postby Velocomp » Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:38 pm

Rolando wrote:If you're curious about battery life:

I used NT until my phone died, just 200m before the end.
My iPhone4 recorded a total of 10:30 hours of data, 9hrs were riding data.
The phone was at 95% capacity and as suggested here I turned email push to off and fetching to manual. Cell and text were still active.

Rolando


That is a great result!
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Re: Newton Tracker comments and response

Postby ronpei » Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:48 pm

Hi Guys, is it likely that this will work on a windows platform phone as well?
thanks
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Re: Newton Tracker comments and response

Postby ronpei » Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:09 pm

ronpei wrote:Hi Guys, is it likely that this will work on a windows platform phone as well?
thanks
Ron

also does it work via wifi if you do not have a cell signal? I am new to this smart phone stuff!
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Re: Newton Tracker comments and response

Postby racerfern » Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:10 pm

Works perfectly with WiFi on my Android.
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Re: Newton Tracker comments and response

Postby ronpei » Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:51 pm

racerfern wrote:Works perfectly with WiFi on my Android.

that sounds good, but I think the phone I have available is a windows platform, so I assume that is not applicable yet. Is there any thoughts towards a windows app as well as the apple and android?
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Re: Newton Tracker comments and response

Postby Velocomp » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:41 pm

ronpei wrote:
racerfern wrote:Works perfectly with WiFi on my Android.

that sounds good, but I think the phone I have available is a windows platform, so I assume that is not applicable yet. Is there any thoughts towards a windows app as well as the apple and android?


Sorry to say, there aren't enough Windows phones out there to justify the development effort required. We simply don't have enough resources :(
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Re: Newton Tracker comments and response

Postby ronpei » Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:48 am

one question regarding the GPS track you can see when you merge the tracker file to the Isaac software file. This is a fairly rudimentary track but if in some way it could be a window/ pop up that might be a cool option for looking at data on isaac and relating it to a specific point on the route? Just a thought, for instance if you highlight a point(s) on the route in the typical Isaac interface then a similar highlight is shown on the track in a pop up window. That would be nice I think for quick work when you do not have internet access to Google Earth. By the way the app works great, I use it with wifi on a smart phone with no cell phone plan at all, just wifi. It often takes a few up load cycles to get the file to upload but it always seems to do it in the end.
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Re: Newton Tracker comments and response

Postby Velocomp » Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:12 pm

ronpei wrote:one question regarding the GPS track you can see when you merge the tracker file to the Isaac software file. This is a fairly rudimentary track but if in some way it could be a window/ pop up that might be a cool option for looking at data on isaac and relating it to a specific point on the route? Just a thought, for instance if you highlight a point(s) on the route in the typical Isaac interface then a similar highlight is shown on the track in a pop up window. That would be nice I think for quick work when you do not have internet access to Google Earth. By the way the app works great, I use it with wifi on a smart phone with no cell phone plan at all, just wifi. It often takes a few up load cycles to get the file to upload but it always seems to do it in the end.


We'll pass your idea along to Travis!
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Re: Newton Tracker comments and response

Postby ronpei » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:18 am

thanks John that would really make Isaac and tracker work somewhat similar to Sport tracks which is a great way to visualize where things happen on the map. Since obviously it is partially implemented when you merge into Isaac I hope it is something that can be brought forward as a side window/ popup window.
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Re: Newton Tracker comments and response

Postby jazclrint » Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:24 pm

Velocomp wrote:
ronpei wrote:
racerfern wrote:Works perfectly with WiFi on my Android.

that sounds good, but I think the phone I have available is a windows platform, so I assume that is not applicable yet. Is there any thoughts towards a windows app as well as the apple and android?


Sorry to say, there aren't enough Windows phones out there to justify the development effort required. We simply don't have enough resources :(


Not sure if you saw my Windows phone post ronpei, but One drive on our windows phones make things nice, and almost all of the windows phone cycling apps will let you upload the file straight to one drive. Then you just sync the one drive on your computer and load it into Issac. The issue I have been having is that One Drive on my 8.1 computer says it sync'd on start up, but the files aren't showing. I have to manually sync it. Not how it is supposed to work. But it's only one click of a mouse and an extra few seconds. I'd be nice if there was a short cut in Isaac like the tracker app has for us windows phone guys. It seems like that might be easier to develop. I guess in theory I could complain that just paid for the Tracker app and I have no way to use it. But that would be being a real jack ass because, if you look at the pricing, you are pretty much getting the app for free now.
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Re: Newton Tracker comments and response

Postby Velocomp » Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:05 pm

Velocomp wrote:
ronpei wrote:one question regarding the GPS track you can see when you merge the tracker file to the Isaac software file. This is a fairly rudimentary track but if in some way it could be a window/ pop up that might be a cool option for looking at data on isaac and relating it to a specific point on the route? Just a thought, for instance if you highlight a point(s) on the route in the typical Isaac interface then a similar highlight is shown on the track in a pop up window. That would be nice I think for quick work when you do not have internet access to Google Earth. By the way the app works great, I use it with wifi on a smart phone with no cell phone plan at all, just wifi. It often takes a few up load cycles to get the file to upload but it always seems to do it in the end.


We'll pass your idea along to Travis!


Isaac 3 now does exactly what you have requested. Highlight your ride file segment and where it happens on the route is highlighted. Highlight the segment of map where you're curious about your ride data and the area is highlighted in the cycling window :D
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Re: Newton Tracker comments and response

Postby Velocomp » Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:07 pm

jazclrint wrote:
Not sure if you saw my Windows phone post ronpei, but One drive on our windows phones make things nice, and almost all of the windows phone cycling apps will let you upload the file straight to one drive. Then you just sync the one drive on your computer and load it into Issac. The issue I have been having is that One Drive on my 8.1 computer says it sync'd on start up, but the files aren't showing. I have to manually sync it. Not how it is supposed to work. But it's only one click of a mouse and an extra few seconds. I'd be nice if there was a short cut in Isaac like the tracker app has for us windows phone guys. It seems like that might be easier to develop. I guess in theory I could complain that just paid for the Tracker app and I have no way to use it. But that would be being a real jack ass because, if you look at the pricing, you are pretty much getting the app for free now.


I'll see if we can create a One Drive link.
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Re: Newton Tracker comments and response

Postby jazclrint » Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:07 am

Velocomp wrote:
jazclrint wrote:
Not sure if you saw my Windows phone post ronpei, but One drive on our windows phones make things nice, and almost all of the windows phone cycling apps will let you upload the file straight to one drive. Then you just sync the one drive on your computer and load it into Issac. The issue I have been having is that One Drive on my 8.1 computer says it sync'd on start up, but the files aren't showing. I have to manually sync it. Not how it is supposed to work. But it's only one click of a mouse and an extra few seconds. I'd be nice if there was a short cut in Isaac like the tracker app has for us windows phone guys. It seems like that might be easier to develop. I guess in theory I could complain that just paid for the Tracker app and I have no way to use it. But that would be being a real jack ass because, if you look at the pricing, you are pretty much getting the app for free now.


I'll see if we can create a One Drive link.


That would be awesome, thank you. Just what you guys needed I know, one more darn thing to add to your list.
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Re: Newton Tracker comments and response

Postby nsidirop » Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:47 am

Velocomp wrote:We received a comment on Newton Tracker; here it is:

"Like the iBike itself, the major complaint here is that there is no way to manually pause the timer when you pull over to change headbands, respond to nature's call, etc. At least the Newton autopauses, while tracker keeps the elapsed time running, meaning that when the two files are merged and uploaded to Training Peaks, you get an average speed based on elapsed time, not moving time. For now, I'll stick with merging my garmin files to Isaac. The other complaint, which is common to all iphone gps apps for biking, is that for rides much over an hour, this is not very practical for battery life, especially if you want to use the iphone for anything other than tracker while riding."

I think it's important to respond to this publicly:

1) NT is a SUPPORTING app that works IN COMBINATION with the Newton. NT does NOT intend to be an app for tracking ride stats, etc; NT's purpose is to provide GPS data (in the background) to the Newton. The Newton does all the heavy-lifting of ride stat tracking.

2) There is no reason to have a pause timer in NT, because NT's only job is to track GPS information. Isaac figures out where all the pauses are!

There's no reason to have a pause button in the Newton, because the Newton pauses automatically!

Isaac software does all of the hard work of merging things together.

3) The merged file is based on NEWTON data, not NT data. So, average speeds, ride time, etc. for TrainingPeaks is 100% accurate, and NT has zero effect on ride stats.

4) There's no difference in ride stats if you use a Garmin or the Newton+NT.

5) We routinely get 5 hours of ride time with our iPhone 5, with everything turned on. Similar results with our Android version. If you're only getting one hour of battery life from your smartphone, then something is wrong with your smartphone.


Regarding auto pause, there has been a couple of occasion when the NT has paused during a break of say 10 minutes or so somewhere during a ride and then not restarted once I am off again. After the ride when I've uploaded to Isaac, the portion of the ride which was after the break is missing and I get the message that there was a problem with Newton Tracker data. It seems as if one needs to manually start the NT again after a break. Is this really the case or am I missing something here? Why can't NT restart sampling GPS data once you are off riding again?
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Re: Newton Tracker comments and response

Postby Velocomp » Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:31 am

Go to the Settings screen in NT. There is a GPS Power Saving switch. Turn it off and NT will stay on continuously.
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Re: Newton Tracker comments and response

Postby blp » Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:14 pm

Velocomp wrote:Go to the Settings screen in NT. There is a GPS Power Saving switch. Turn it off and NT will stay on continuously.


Is it not possible to have NT auto-restart after an auto-pause?
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Re: Newton Tracker comments and response

Postby Velocomp » Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:24 pm

I'm not sure about the details about how the GPS Power Savings switch works. I will check.
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