Major Performance Improvement: OS2 for Newton

Re: A major improvement: OS2 for Newton

Postby racerfern » Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:57 pm

Well, down left right center is a lot of fingers in a very small space, but whatever works.

Absolutely same for tilt, you need to do one tilt calibration and as long as you get a GOOD TILT message you don't need to ever do another one.

It is not recommended that you do a new cal ride. Assuming your profile is good, just get on and ride.

Let us know how the ride goes tomorrow.
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Re: A major improvement: OS2 for Newton

Postby bjrmd » Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:03 am

I think there is still a problem in the Isaac display/reading of cda/time advantage. During coasting it reverts to the base cda in the saved profile. On the Newton screen it does show a different dynamic number as I am coasting. This will them distort the time advantage done by Isaac software. Also it would be nice to see the cda corrected by tilt/wind in the PC software
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Re: A major improvement: OS2 for Newton

Postby Velocomp » Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:09 am

garrett wrote:Here's the ride file. Looks like elevation and wind flatlined around 20 min into the ride. I tried to recalibrate both at about 55 min into the ride, so something else threw the calibration off at that 20 min mark. Even before the 20 min mark there seems to be an inverse relationship between power and climbing. I did a wind calibration before the ride, but did not do a tilt.

Maybe just a bad day for Newton, but it seems to have more of these than I'm comfortable with; as stated in my earlier post sometimes power is locked at 60-70 watts for the whole ride, next ride it seems as expected. A problem if you're counting on being able to analyze your ride (would have loved to have logged my power on a personal best climb today).


We are looking in to this; it is a very high priority item.
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Re: A major improvement: OS2 for Newton

Postby Brodirt » Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:30 pm

Yesterday I also encountered the problem described above.
I updated to firmware 2.12 but was unable to ride outside today...rain here in the Northeast pushed me to the basement.
Interestingly I encountered an odd effect while on the trainer...perhaps it is attributable to the units greater sensitivity, but I found that when I would stand on the trainer Newton would kick me out of "trainer on" mode and put me into a road ride.
Then to reset it would not acknowledge resetting on the unit to "trainer on" but I had to reset the ride.
This occurred 5-6 times during my trainer session.

Has anyone seen this issue before?
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Re: A major improvement: OS2 for Newton

Postby Brodirt » Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:20 pm

I was able to replicate, and then cure, the issue I mentioned above where while on the trainer Newton switched over to a road ride while I was doing out of saddle sprint-type efforts.

I did some sprints again last night and sure enough on the first sprint the Newton switched over to a road ride.
I turned off the fan and repeated the effort and the issue went away.

I keep my fan in front of the bike, while on the trainer, at roughly 11 o'clock.
When I sprint the trainer does move some. I have a padded floor in the room which adds to the natural rocking even if not a Kinetic Rock n' Roll machine.

None the less when I turned off the fan it was resolved completely and the issue does not occur if the fan is running and I am not doing out of saddle efforts.

I suspect this might be a glitch that needs to be addressed.
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Re: A major improvement: OS2 for Newton

Postby still-chasing » Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:56 pm

Did Cal ride today just to see if any improvements due to new firmware updates lately. After downloading Cal ride, I got a value of 1.015 for wind scaling, -.5 for tilt and Nan for the rest. I extracted the profile in Newton and got a value of 1.017 for wind scaling, -.5 for tilt and the rest of the values filled in. Wind scaling is not the same between download and extracted. Also, why is it that the only values shown in the download Cal ride is Wind scaling and tilt? Does NaN means "not available"? Why do we have to go to edit profile extract it from Newton to see the rest of the values?

I'm more confused now than before. Every time I do a Cal Ride(I know, I should only do 1, but I'm a little obsessed to double,triple, quadruple to check my numbers), I get different values for tilt(ranging from -.4 to -1.1), Wind scaling (ranging from .898 to as high as 1.053), Aero(ranging from .288 to .326), Fric(ranging from 6.977 to 12.179). I keep Cda constant at .309 and Crr constant at .0054 (Newton is showing 53)
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Re: A major improvement: OS2 for Newton

Postby Velocomp » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:18 am

garrett wrote:Here's the ride file. Looks like elevation and wind flatlined around 20 min into the ride. I tried to recalibrate both at about 55 min into the ride, so something else threw the calibration off at that 20 min mark. Even before the 20 min mark there seems to be an inverse relationship between power and climbing. I did a wind calibration before the ride, but did not do a tilt.

Maybe just a bad day for Newton, but it seems to have more of these than I'm comfortable with; as stated in my earlier post sometimes power is locked at 60-70 watts for the whole ride, next ride it seems as expected. A problem if you're counting on being able to analyze your ride (would have loved to have logged my power on a personal best climb today).


This problem has been addressed in OS2.13, just released.
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Re: A major improvement: OS2 for Newton

Postby Velocomp » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:21 am

Brodirt wrote:Yesterday I also encountered the problem described above.
I updated to firmware 2.12 but was unable to ride outside today...rain here in the Northeast pushed me to the basement.
Interestingly I encountered an odd effect while on the trainer...perhaps it is attributable to the units greater sensitivity, but I found that when I would stand on the trainer Newton would kick me out of "trainer on" mode and put me into a road ride.
Then to reset it would not acknowledge resetting on the unit to "trainer on" but I had to reset the ride.
This occurred 5-6 times during my trainer session.

Has anyone seen this issue before?


This is not the same issue. When in trainer mode, if a strong wind hits the wind port then the Newton thinks it is outside, and turns the trainer mode off. This feature was implemented because we saw riders doing outdoor rides with their units set to indoor trainer mode. Needless to say, their data was bad....

When riding indoors, try to keep strong winds from hitting the wind port. Alternatively, put a piece of tape over the port during your indoor rides. Make sure to remove the tape prior to going outdoors!
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Re: A major improvement: OS2 for Newton

Postby Velocomp » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:34 am

still-chasing wrote:Did Cal ride today just to see if any improvements due to new firmware updates lately. After downloading Cal ride, I got a value of 1.015 for wind scaling, -.5 for tilt and Nan for the rest. I extracted the profile in Newton and got a value of 1.017 for wind scaling, -.5 for tilt and the rest of the values filled in. Wind scaling is not the same between download and extracted. Also, why is it that the only values shown in the download Cal ride is Wind scaling and tilt? Does NaN means "not available"? Why do we have to go to edit profile extract it from Newton to see the rest of the values?

I'm more confused now than before. Every time I do a Cal Ride(I know, I should only do 1, but I'm a little obsessed to double,triple, quadruple to check my numbers), I get different values for tilt(ranging from -.4 to -1.1), Wind scaling (ranging from .898 to as high as 1.053), Aero(ranging from .288 to .326), Fric(ranging from 6.977 to 12.179). I keep Cda constant at .309 and Crr constant at .0054 (Newton is showing 53)


You are "still-chasing" numbers whose values are varying between your Newton and the Isaac software in the third and fourth decimal point; i.e. 1/1000 or 1/10000. These differences are meaningless.

Tilt, wind scaling, aero, and fric, are all interrelated. It is very reasonable that they move around some.

We've said it a million times before, but it never hurts to say it again: Do your calibrations, carefully, ONE TIME, then go ride your bike. :D
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Re: A major improvement: OS2 for Newton

Postby still-chasing » Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:44 am

If the Check calibration results were "insignificant change" or "slight change" i'd be content. It's when I get "noticeable change" or worse "significant change" is where I get confused. All done in same condition. Very early morning where I'm the only person on the road.
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Re: A major improvement: OS2 for Newton

Postby wlv31 » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:30 pm

Congratulations on the many and continuing improvements from gen3 to present Newton. Truly it is an amazing device. One minor difference I've noted for only the past few weeks is that even though Isaac shows nonzero speed correctly it no longer shows zero speed. The attached pdf shows a ride with 3 stops for traffic lights near the end (as confirmed by Garmin) but Isaac fails to show zero speed (FW 2.13 and SW 1.0.6). Anybody else noted this?
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Re: A major improvement: OS2 for Newton

Postby racerfern » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:41 pm

I've never seen the software show time at zero speed (paused/stopped) time. Even when you merge GPS data into the ride it still shows only moving time in the graph.
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Re: A major improvement: OS2 for Newton

Postby Russ » Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:21 pm

wlv31,

One thing to check is smoothing. The list box to the left of SHOW up top on the right is the smoothing value. If it is not 0 seconds then zero speed can disappear due to averaging.

Averaging can pull the stop time up because stop time is actually only zero or one second, best I can make out, not having looked at it in the ride file in awhile.

Russ

Edit to add: Remember this only changes the visual representation in the graphs, not the ride file itself.
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Re: A major improvement: OS2 for Newton

Postby wlv31 » Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:42 pm

Russ I checked and smoothing is 0.00 (also speed is NOT checked under signals to smooth in the display options window). Prior to 10/11/12 my ride files all correctly show zero speed every time I'd stopped for at least a few seconds. Since then, as in the example I posted Isaac shows me going between 3 and 5 mph when stopped (even at the end of the ride it looks like I do a flying dismount). Are your very recent rides still showing zero speed when you're stopped in which case it must be some other setting in my system?
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Re: A major improvement: OS2 for Newton

Postby racerfern » Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:06 pm

Yup, I can confirm what you're seeing, it just took a little while to actually understand what was happening. It shows as you describe when FW 2.10 was released. My file of 09-29 shows my min speed as 3.6 and files prior to that have min speed of zero.

I'm sure John is watching and will alert the proper authorities. :D
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Re: A major improvement: OS2 for Newton

Postby Velocomp » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:10 am

racerfern wrote:Yup, I can confirm what you're seeing, it just took a little while to actually understand what was happening. It shows as you describe when FW 2.10 was released. My file of 09-29 shows my min speed as 3.6 and files prior to that have min speed of zero.

I'm sure John is watching and will alert the proper authorities. :D

It's a bug, and we're on it. The good news is that it has zero effect on any of the other data.
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Re: A major improvement: OS2 for Newton

Postby Russ » Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:22 pm

All,

Just downloaded 2.14 with this fix and another for the dpfm.

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